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	Comments on: Smokers Need Not Apply	</title>
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	<description>Everything to make HR better</description>
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		<title>
		By: Bill		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-105378</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6391&quot;&gt;Mike C.&lt;/a&gt;.

How about we stop hiring FAT people? I am offended when you sweat and stink like a fat PIG due to your weight. Let&#039;s not hire Mothers, look at how many days they take off to care for their children. You people are a bunch of idiots]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6391">Mike C.</a>.</p>
<p>How about we stop hiring FAT people? I am offended when you sweat and stink like a fat PIG due to your weight. Let&#8217;s not hire Mothers, look at how many days they take off to care for their children. You people are a bunch of idiots</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ashley Williams		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ashley Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for such a blog and it will be inspiring to be in a smoke free world !!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for such a blog and it will be inspiring to be in a smoke free world !!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cheryl		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cheryl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 03:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Parts of this conversation remind me of the following quote:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“In Germany they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews,and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,and by that time no one was left to speak up”. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ultimately it comes down to money for the businesses, right or wrong it&#039;s always the bottom line.  If we allow companies to dictate how we live, what we eat, whether we exercise, etc., then soon they will have surpassed common sense just to make a buck.  As we are individuals and not carbon copies of one another; it would behoove us all to stand up for the rights of being individuals, so as to not be denigrated for that very individuality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On a side note, I smoked for 28 years and when I quit, I apparently married my fork.  I totally agree with both the smokers and the non smokers, I have been in both camps...it is not a smoker issue.  It is an issue of discrimination.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parts of this conversation remind me of the following quote:</p>
<p>“In Germany they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews,and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,and by that time no one was left to speak up”. </p>
<p>Ultimately it comes down to money for the businesses, right or wrong it&#39;s always the bottom line.  If we allow companies to dictate how we live, what we eat, whether we exercise, etc., then soon they will have surpassed common sense just to make a buck.  As we are individuals and not carbon copies of one another; it would behoove us all to stand up for the rights of being individuals, so as to not be denigrated for that very individuality.</p>
<p>On a side note, I smoked for 28 years and when I quit, I apparently married my fork.  I totally agree with both the smokers and the non smokers, I have been in both camps&#8230;it is not a smoker issue.  It is an issue of discrimination.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Class factotum		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6399</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Class factotum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6399</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do not smoke. I go to the gym four times a week. I am not overweight, although if I dropped ten pounds, I could get into my skinny jeans. I do all the cooking at home from scratch - we eat very healthfully.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I do, however, get migraines. I take painkillers that cost $25 apiece retail and have tried preventive drugs that cost thousands of dollars a year. My neurologist charges $800 an hour.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Should a prospective employer be allowed to not hire me because of the medical expenses I would incur?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Watch out for that slippery slope.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not smoke. I go to the gym four times a week. I am not overweight, although if I dropped ten pounds, I could get into my skinny jeans. I do all the cooking at home from scratch &#8211; we eat very healthfully.</p>
<p>I do, however, get migraines. I take painkillers that cost $25 apiece retail and have tried preventive drugs that cost thousands of dollars a year. My neurologist charges $800 an hour.</p>
<p>Should a prospective employer be allowed to not hire me because of the medical expenses I would incur?</p>
<p>Watch out for that slippery slope.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6398</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 05:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6398</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obesity and smoking carry similar risks, but can employers discriminate against obese workers?  So far, not as blatantly as they do smokers.  Do they, yes of course they do.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, $3k per employee is a sum to be saved, but what if the employee is truly productive and makes up for it.  Who cares if he/she has a bad habit?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It all comes down to what are we getting from hiring this person - what do they deliver for the cost -- not, now many 15 minute breaks do they take.  Anyone who thinks like that is a myopic drone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obesity and smoking carry similar risks, but can employers discriminate against obese workers?  So far, not as blatantly as they do smokers.  Do they, yes of course they do.  </p>
<p>Yes, $3k per employee is a sum to be saved, but what if the employee is truly productive and makes up for it.  Who cares if he/she has a bad habit?</p>
<p>It all comes down to what are we getting from hiring this person &#8211; what do they deliver for the cost &#8212; not, now many 15 minute breaks do they take.  Anyone who thinks like that is a myopic drone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Mike pointed out that the employer is a hospital. I know the hospital implemented this policy as a way to decrease benefit expenses. I think it SHOULD be a policy but for a different reason.  We have all heard about second hand smoke but fewer people have heard about third hand smoke, which is now beign widely studied by organizations like the Mayo clinic and American Cancer Society, etc. Third-hand smoke is the residue that remains on all surfaces after smoke has dissipated from the air. The amount of residue depends on the space in which the person smoked. In small spaces like cars, early studies have shown that it can take 7 + days for the particulates to disburse enough not to affect a sensitive asthmatic. If someone smokes on the way to work in their car, they are covering themselves in this residue and can actually emit this toxin onto other people. If smokers are working in a hospital, they will more than likely come into contact with patients with compromised immune systems, asthma, allergies, orbreathing issues. Children are also strongly affected due to thier size. Lead is a main toxic residue left by smoke and can contribute to lead levels built up in the blood which are highly toxic to both adults and kids, but adversly impact kids. I think hospitals have a duty to their patients to hire non-smokers because these employees can cause harm to their patients by being in close contact with them. I think day cares have the same obligation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike pointed out that the employer is a hospital. I know the hospital implemented this policy as a way to decrease benefit expenses. I think it SHOULD be a policy but for a different reason.  We have all heard about second hand smoke but fewer people have heard about third hand smoke, which is now beign widely studied by organizations like the Mayo clinic and American Cancer Society, etc. Third-hand smoke is the residue that remains on all surfaces after smoke has dissipated from the air. The amount of residue depends on the space in which the person smoked. In small spaces like cars, early studies have shown that it can take 7 + days for the particulates to disburse enough not to affect a sensitive asthmatic. If someone smokes on the way to work in their car, they are covering themselves in this residue and can actually emit this toxin onto other people. If smokers are working in a hospital, they will more than likely come into contact with patients with compromised immune systems, asthma, allergies, orbreathing issues. Children are also strongly affected due to thier size. Lead is a main toxic residue left by smoke and can contribute to lead levels built up in the blood which are highly toxic to both adults and kids, but adversly impact kids. I think hospitals have a duty to their patients to hire non-smokers because these employees can cause harm to their patients by being in close contact with them. I think day cares have the same obligation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike C.		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Elaine -&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry about the &#034;lazy&#034; bit, that was Acemeister. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, as you support the idea that an employer should be allowed to discriminate based on legal activities outside of work, it does mean that if such policies were accepted widely smokers would not be likely to find a job. Given the sorry state of our social safety net in the United States, they would likely be thrown out on the street. Sorry, but that&#039;s the reality of poverty in this country.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As to the Employer&#039;s &#034;right to chose&#034;, they have no such right. In fact, there are several federal and state laws which explicitly prohibit the discrimination of several different protected classes. The basis of these laws is such that while every single employer may not participate in such discrimination, it&#039;s likely that a large enough group of employers in a geographical area will do so in such a manner as to make the difference negligible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While smokers or meat eaters or motorcycle riders aren&#039;t protected classes, a similar logic applies. It&#039;s not a trivial exercise to move across the country if you happen to have a spouse with a job in town, or have a house that cannot be sold. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&#039;s funny that you mention that &#034;smokers can quit&#034;. It&#039;s an incredibly difficult process, but it can be done. The employer in question, A HOSPITAL OF ALL PLACES, most likely has access to a variety of smoking secession programs and materials. Not to mention the proper support to ensure that such programs stick. Why not simply make the smoker pay more for their health benefits, offer them the materials and then when they quit they get the normal price? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Really, this isn&#039;t about smoking at all - it&#039;s about an employer that&#039;s either too rigid or too stupid to act like a human being and find a solution that doesn&#039;t end up screwing over otherwise good potential employees.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Elaine &#8211;</p>
<p>Sorry about the &quot;lazy&quot; bit, that was Acemeister. </p>
<p>However, as you support the idea that an employer should be allowed to discriminate based on legal activities outside of work, it does mean that if such policies were accepted widely smokers would not be likely to find a job. Given the sorry state of our social safety net in the United States, they would likely be thrown out on the street. Sorry, but that&#39;s the reality of poverty in this country.</p>
<p>As to the Employer&#39;s &quot;right to chose&quot;, they have no such right. In fact, there are several federal and state laws which explicitly prohibit the discrimination of several different protected classes. The basis of these laws is such that while every single employer may not participate in such discrimination, it&#39;s likely that a large enough group of employers in a geographical area will do so in such a manner as to make the difference negligible. </p>
<p>While smokers or meat eaters or motorcycle riders aren&#39;t protected classes, a similar logic applies. It&#39;s not a trivial exercise to move across the country if you happen to have a spouse with a job in town, or have a house that cannot be sold. </p>
<p>It&#39;s funny that you mention that &quot;smokers can quit&quot;. It&#39;s an incredibly difficult process, but it can be done. The employer in question, A HOSPITAL OF ALL PLACES, most likely has access to a variety of smoking secession programs and materials. Not to mention the proper support to ensure that such programs stick. Why not simply make the smoker pay more for their health benefits, offer them the materials and then when they quit they get the normal price? </p>
<p>Really, this isn&#39;t about smoking at all &#8211; it&#39;s about an employer that&#39;s either too rigid or too stupid to act like a human being and find a solution that doesn&#39;t end up screwing over otherwise good potential employees.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Elaine		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6395</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elaine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6395</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK, Mike, you&#039;re putting words in my mouth.  I never said smokers should be thrown out into the street without any option of ever finding another job as long as they live.  I never said they were lazy.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;People can quit smoking, you know.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Employers do have the right to hire whomever they choose.  If they choose to hire only non-smokers, then smokers can apply for work somewhere else.  All employers will never stop hiring smokers.  In case you&#039;re too upset to read that last sentence, here it is again:  *ALL* EMPLOYERS WILL NEVER STOP HIRING SMOKERS.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Mike, you&#39;re putting words in my mouth.  I never said smokers should be thrown out into the street without any option of ever finding another job as long as they live.  I never said they were lazy.  </p>
<p>People can quit smoking, you know.  </p>
<p>Employers do have the right to hire whomever they choose.  If they choose to hire only non-smokers, then smokers can apply for work somewhere else.  All employers will never stop hiring smokers.  In case you&#39;re too upset to read that last sentence, here it is again:  *ALL* EMPLOYERS WILL NEVER STOP HIRING SMOKERS.</p>
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		<title>
		By: fposte		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6394</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fposte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6394</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m another lifelong nonsmoker who has some concerns about this.  The other problem is that a lot of anecdotal support comes from confirmation bias--people don&#039;t notice the smokers who don&#039;t take smoke breaks and don&#039;t smell like smoke, so the only smokers who do get noticed perpetuate the stereotype.  (And I do agree that this raises the problem of tying health insurance to the workplace in the first place.)  But mostly it&#039;s the notion that companies are not only 1) choosing to hire based on health insurance risk factors in private life but 2) picking and choosing which risk factors are relevant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After all, there are the companies who ask for 80+ hour weeks and therefore require their employees to sacrifice a certain amount of personal health to work there.  Maybe they&#039;ll fire employees for complying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m another lifelong nonsmoker who has some concerns about this.  The other problem is that a lot of anecdotal support comes from confirmation bias&#8211;people don&#39;t notice the smokers who don&#39;t take smoke breaks and don&#39;t smell like smoke, so the only smokers who do get noticed perpetuate the stereotype.  (And I do agree that this raises the problem of tying health insurance to the workplace in the first place.)  But mostly it&#39;s the notion that companies are not only 1) choosing to hire based on health insurance risk factors in private life but 2) picking and choosing which risk factors are relevant.</p>
<p>After all, there are the companies who ask for 80+ hour weeks and therefore require their employees to sacrifice a certain amount of personal health to work there.  Maybe they&#39;ll fire employees for complying.</p>
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		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2011/02/smokers-need-not-apply.html#comment-6393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a non-smoker and understand the sentiments of those with complaints about smokers and the smell and allergies...but I agree with Mike. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where do we draw the line? Overweight folks cost companies a lot of money too but imagine the outcry if employers posted looking for only physically fit people?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are other things that companies can do that while they cost money at the outset (smoking cessation programs, wellness programs, etc....) if they help people quit, can save money in the long run.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m a non-smoker and understand the sentiments of those with complaints about smokers and the smell and allergies&#8230;but I agree with Mike. </p>
<p>Where do we draw the line? Overweight folks cost companies a lot of money too but imagine the outcry if employers posted looking for only physically fit people?</p>
<p>There are other things that companies can do that while they cost money at the outset (smoking cessation programs, wellness programs, etc&#8230;.) if they help people quit, can save money in the long run.</p>
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