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	Comments on: Quoting scripture at work	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Lorena		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-225153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lorena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2020 17:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-225153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My concern is actually about manager and supervisor. Due to a lot happening in our nation, sometimes I do not have words to express my thoughts and feelings. The bible, I consider it is not a religious book but a compilation of many history books that were written centuries ago. The manager sends quotes, not from the bible every day in what she calls Moment of the Day email at the end of the day. One time I replied, after thanking her for the encouraging words, with a properly cited quote from the bible. Noting happen that time. But when I used a quote from the bible on my monthly narrative, which is the space we have for entering our challenges, successes, our thoughts during the month, manager asked supervisor to talk to me about it and to tell me to stop. Then when I said that if manager&#039;s quote are welcome, how come my quotes are not and that it could be discrimination. Supervisor took notes and said she will have a meeting with me after checking in with manager. I try to consider myself not a religious person and I do not consider the bible as a religious book anymore. the more I read it, the more I learn about other nations, so it is a history book, despite what others think it is a religious book. I find encouraging words and words of hope in the bible that help me learn about compassion and wisdom.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My concern is actually about manager and supervisor. Due to a lot happening in our nation, sometimes I do not have words to express my thoughts and feelings. The bible, I consider it is not a religious book but a compilation of many history books that were written centuries ago. The manager sends quotes, not from the bible every day in what she calls Moment of the Day email at the end of the day. One time I replied, after thanking her for the encouraging words, with a properly cited quote from the bible. Noting happen that time. But when I used a quote from the bible on my monthly narrative, which is the space we have for entering our challenges, successes, our thoughts during the month, manager asked supervisor to talk to me about it and to tell me to stop. Then when I said that if manager&#8217;s quote are welcome, how come my quotes are not and that it could be discrimination. Supervisor took notes and said she will have a meeting with me after checking in with manager. I try to consider myself not a religious person and I do not consider the bible as a religious book anymore. the more I read it, the more I learn about other nations, so it is a history book, despite what others think it is a religious book. I find encouraging words and words of hope in the bible that help me learn about compassion and wisdom.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Linda H		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-35149</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-35149</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your advice mostly hit the mark.  We are in America where expressing your opinion is a freedom.  My only concern is your suggestion to say:  &quot;I am nervous about being treated unfairly because I don’t share the same religious beliefs&quot; It certainly would be effective, but don&#039;t you also think it should be honest, too?  I believe it is an unfair tactic to be dishonest and use HR to &quot;get even&quot; for being irritated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your advice mostly hit the mark.  We are in America where expressing your opinion is a freedom.  My only concern is your suggestion to say:  &#8220;I am nervous about being treated unfairly because I don’t share the same religious beliefs&#8221; It certainly would be effective, but don&#8217;t you also think it should be honest, too?  I believe it is an unfair tactic to be dishonest and use HR to &#8220;get even&#8221; for being irritated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: KellyK		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-19337</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KellyK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-19337</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree that it&#039;s an appropriate question to ask because people do go to HR just to vent, or complain but then back out of wanting anything to be done about it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it&#8217;s an appropriate question to ask because people do go to HR just to vent, or complain but then back out of wanting anything to be done about it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Evil HR Lady		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18256</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evil HR Lady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18256</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18253&quot;&gt;SunnyInSB&lt;/a&gt;.

Annoying behavior or illegal behavior? There&#039;s a difference.

&quot;My boss picks his teeth during meetings,&quot; is annoying behavior, but not illegal and does not have to be investigated.

&quot;My boss looks at porn in his cube,&quot; is illegal and must be investigated.

&quot;My boss quotes scriptures,&quot; is not illegal and does not have to be investigated. 

&quot;My boss quotes scriptures and...&quot; can be illegal and probably should be investigated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18253">SunnyInSB</a>.</p>
<p>Annoying behavior or illegal behavior? There&#8217;s a difference.</p>
<p>&#8220;My boss picks his teeth during meetings,&#8221; is annoying behavior, but not illegal and does not have to be investigated.</p>
<p>&#8220;My boss looks at porn in his cube,&#8221; is illegal and must be investigated.</p>
<p>&#8220;My boss quotes scriptures,&#8221; is not illegal and does not have to be investigated. </p>
<p>&#8220;My boss quotes scriptures and&#8230;&#8221; can be illegal and probably should be investigated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SunnyInSB		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18253</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SunnyInSB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18253</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Evil,
I think you&#039;re awesome and I read your blog regularly, but I&#039;m with Charles on this one.  It&#039;s not the employee&#039;s call whether HR decides to conduct an investigation.  My rule re: any type of discrimination complaint is investigate now or be sorry later.  Imagine this scenario (which happened, but involved a different form of discrimination): Employee reports annoying supervisor.  HR asks, &quot;do you want me to do anything?&quot;  Employee says no.  HR does nothing.  Employee gets fired a weeks later for a shortage in her cash till (third time).  Employee sues for discrimination and retaliation.  Employer&#039;s motion for summary judgment was DENIED and key to that loss was that the employer conducted no investigation of the vaguely reported discrimination.  Rather than go to trial and risk losing on retaliation (closeness in time between the complaint and the termination and lack of good documentation were a problem) the employer settled for $90k plus approx $30k in attorneys fees.  And as far as I could tell, no actionable discrimination ever occurred.  Moral of the story is --let them come to you for counseling, but repeatedly make it clear that HR investigates ALL complaints of harassment or discrimination, no matter what.  I can tell you that the whiners with no real issues will quiet right down when you implement this approach.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Evil,<br />
I think you&#8217;re awesome and I read your blog regularly, but I&#8217;m with Charles on this one.  It&#8217;s not the employee&#8217;s call whether HR decides to conduct an investigation.  My rule re: any type of discrimination complaint is investigate now or be sorry later.  Imagine this scenario (which happened, but involved a different form of discrimination): Employee reports annoying supervisor.  HR asks, &#8220;do you want me to do anything?&#8221;  Employee says no.  HR does nothing.  Employee gets fired a weeks later for a shortage in her cash till (third time).  Employee sues for discrimination and retaliation.  Employer&#8217;s motion for summary judgment was DENIED and key to that loss was that the employer conducted no investigation of the vaguely reported discrimination.  Rather than go to trial and risk losing on retaliation (closeness in time between the complaint and the termination and lack of good documentation were a problem) the employer settled for $90k plus approx $30k in attorneys fees.  And as far as I could tell, no actionable discrimination ever occurred.  Moral of the story is &#8211;let them come to you for counseling, but repeatedly make it clear that HR investigates ALL complaints of harassment or discrimination, no matter what.  I can tell you that the whiners with no real issues will quiet right down when you implement this approach.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Another Evil HR Director		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Evil HR Director]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 11:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18201&quot;&gt;Charles&lt;/a&gt;.

In all fairness, it&#039;s hard to say what the HR person in this case actually said, or what ALL was said.  The OP only shared what she felt was relevant to post the issue and her question.  Rather convenient when she clearly wants someone to side with her. Don&#039;t we experience that on a regular basis?  Only getting the information the speaker wants us to hear, and not necessarily the whole story?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18201">Charles</a>.</p>
<p>In all fairness, it&#8217;s hard to say what the HR person in this case actually said, or what ALL was said.  The OP only shared what she felt was relevant to post the issue and her question.  Rather convenient when she clearly wants someone to side with her. Don&#8217;t we experience that on a regular basis?  Only getting the information the speaker wants us to hear, and not necessarily the whole story?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Charles		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18201</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18201</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Evil, assuming that this is happening in the US, I&#039;m with the OP on this one.

&quot;Do you want me to say something to him?&quot; isn&#039;t just an &quot;inappropriate&quot; question, it is a really stupid question to ask in this situation.  HR upon hearing this complaint should respond that they will check it out and &quot;thanks for bringing it to our attention.&quot;  (Which, in my opinion, is the professional HR response for most complaints)

Yes, it would be okay for HR to suggest to the employee that the manager might guess at who issued the complaint; but, they will do their best to keep it confidential. Good HR and good upper management should know how to check things out without &quot;spilling the beans.&quot; (hint: don&#039;t approach a manager and say &quot;we hear you like to quote bible verses, Is this true?&quot;)

Look at it this way; while you seemed to have jumped &quot;he isn&#039;t doing anything illegal!&quot; rather quickly; Unless this is a faith-based organization, this boss is clearly making some employees feel uncomfortable with behaviour that is not normally accepted in a secular society. So, of course, HR should do something about it.

I&#039;m not saying that there aren&#039;t times when HR isn&#039;t sure if they should act; or there aren&#039;t times when the employee isn&#039;t just venting; this clearly isn&#039;t one of them.

Surely, you know that quoting religious stuff is not the same as quoting pop songs or being a Yankees fan; too many wars and killings have been done over religious differences throughout history. Few have died because of pop songs (The Beetles&#039; White Album being one exception.)

Quite frankly, if I &quot;spoke up&quot; and brought to HR&#039;s attention that a manager was doing something that was obviously marginalizing employees and HR responded with &quot;do you want us to say something?&quot; I would say &quot;no, don&#039;t bother&quot; and then look for another job. Which, perhaps, would lead HR to believe that I was &quot;just venting&quot; and that they did nothing wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Evil, assuming that this is happening in the US, I&#8217;m with the OP on this one.</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you want me to say something to him?&#8221; isn&#8217;t just an &#8220;inappropriate&#8221; question, it is a really stupid question to ask in this situation.  HR upon hearing this complaint should respond that they will check it out and &#8220;thanks for bringing it to our attention.&#8221;  (Which, in my opinion, is the professional HR response for most complaints)</p>
<p>Yes, it would be okay for HR to suggest to the employee that the manager might guess at who issued the complaint; but, they will do their best to keep it confidential. Good HR and good upper management should know how to check things out without &#8220;spilling the beans.&#8221; (hint: don&#8217;t approach a manager and say &#8220;we hear you like to quote bible verses, Is this true?&#8221;)</p>
<p>Look at it this way; while you seemed to have jumped &#8220;he isn&#8217;t doing anything illegal!&#8221; rather quickly; Unless this is a faith-based organization, this boss is clearly making some employees feel uncomfortable with behaviour that is not normally accepted in a secular society. So, of course, HR should do something about it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that there aren&#8217;t times when HR isn&#8217;t sure if they should act; or there aren&#8217;t times when the employee isn&#8217;t just venting; this clearly isn&#8217;t one of them.</p>
<p>Surely, you know that quoting religious stuff is not the same as quoting pop songs or being a Yankees fan; too many wars and killings have been done over religious differences throughout history. Few have died because of pop songs (The Beetles&#8217; White Album being one exception.)</p>
<p>Quite frankly, if I &#8220;spoke up&#8221; and brought to HR&#8217;s attention that a manager was doing something that was obviously marginalizing employees and HR responded with &#8220;do you want us to say something?&#8221; I would say &#8220;no, don&#8217;t bother&#8221; and then look for another job. Which, perhaps, would lead HR to believe that I was &#8220;just venting&#8221; and that they did nothing wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The gold digger		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18152</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The gold digger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 23:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18152</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18074&quot;&gt;Evil HR Lady&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;if they aren’t in pharma, where are they?&lt;/i&gt;

I thought they were all in Hollywood.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18074">Evil HR Lady</a>.</p>
<p><i>if they aren’t in pharma, where are they?</i></p>
<p>I thought they were all in Hollywood.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The gold digger		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18151</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The gold digger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 23:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18151</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18071&quot;&gt;Evil HR Lady&lt;/a&gt;.

I learned very quickly not to get into Bible discussions with Baptists. I am Catholic. Baptists beat us into the ground with scripture knowledge. 

They also know all the hymns by heart.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18071">Evil HR Lady</a>.</p>
<p>I learned very quickly not to get into Bible discussions with Baptists. I am Catholic. Baptists beat us into the ground with scripture knowledge. </p>
<p>They also know all the hymns by heart.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gene		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=2343#comment-18127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18077&quot;&gt;StellsBells&lt;/a&gt;.

The only place I don&#039;t wear a kilt is at work. Since I work in the right of way I have to wear long pants.

If I move to an office job, you can bet I&#039;ll wear one to work!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2012/04/quoting-scripture-at-work.html#comment-18077">StellsBells</a>.</p>
<p>The only place I don&#8217;t wear a kilt is at work. Since I work in the right of way I have to wear long pants.</p>
<p>If I move to an office job, you can bet I&#8217;ll wear one to work!</p>
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