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	Comments on: Employment-at-Will Does Not Mean What You Think It Means	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Tim C.		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232901</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232901</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232894&quot;&gt;Meg&lt;/a&gt;.

My understanding is the hospital loosing the staff filed an emergency injunction to prohibit the second hospital from hiring the staff.  This does not solve the staffing problem since the injunction does not require the staff to go back to their old jobs, only that they cant start their new ones.  So now both hospitals are understaffed.  I also learned the staff approached hospital management to see if they could improve their working conditions and compensation.  The requests failed so they took better jobs.  Proper notices were given and again management did nothing.    They are due back in court today.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232894">Meg</a>.</p>
<p>My understanding is the hospital loosing the staff filed an emergency injunction to prohibit the second hospital from hiring the staff.  This does not solve the staffing problem since the injunction does not require the staff to go back to their old jobs, only that they cant start their new ones.  So now both hospitals are understaffed.  I also learned the staff approached hospital management to see if they could improve their working conditions and compensation.  The requests failed so they took better jobs.  Proper notices were given and again management did nothing.    They are due back in court today.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232892&quot;&gt;grannybunny&lt;/a&gt;.

This is a reprint, so it was originally posted before the decision.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232892">grannybunny</a>.</p>
<p>This is a reprint, so it was originally posted before the decision.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Goober		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Goober]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232895&quot;&gt;Mr. Cajun2core&lt;/a&gt;.

It varies from university to university. For the University of California, for instance, it requires a vote among tenured staff, with the majority of the votes favoring termination. And in some cases, that can be a *very* hard sell, no matter how egregious the reason. (Such as Ricardo Hector Asch, of UCI fertility clinic scandal fame, who did lose his tenure - while he was an international fugitive on criminal charges for mail fraud and tax evasion. The vote, in that case, was just *barely* over 50%, despite that.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232895">Mr. Cajun2core</a>.</p>
<p>It varies from university to university. For the University of California, for instance, it requires a vote among tenured staff, with the majority of the votes favoring termination. And in some cases, that can be a *very* hard sell, no matter how egregious the reason. (Such as Ricardo Hector Asch, of UCI fertility clinic scandal fame, who did lose his tenure &#8211; while he was an international fugitive on criminal charges for mail fraud and tax evasion. The vote, in that case, was just *barely* over 50%, despite that.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Goober		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Goober]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232894&quot;&gt;Meg&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s a little subtler than that, from what I&#039;ve read. The staff in question are the 24/7 on-call staff for the only emergency room certified to deal with strokes, and they all gave notice at the same time, which would a) seriously compromise the service to people who may die without it, and b) disqualify them for certification (until they hire replacements, which will take a while).

And the ruling wasn&#039;t that &quot;they can&#039;t quit,&quot; it was that one doctor and one nurse have to be available or on call to meet the requirements for the certification, until more staff is hired.

(The counterpoint is that - according to the staff - there&#039;s no attempt going on to hire those replacements. Neither side can be viewed as without bias. The real issue seems to be that they got better - *much* better - offers from a competitor, and took it.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232894">Meg</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a little subtler than that, from what I&#8217;ve read. The staff in question are the 24/7 on-call staff for the only emergency room certified to deal with strokes, and they all gave notice at the same time, which would a) seriously compromise the service to people who may die without it, and b) disqualify them for certification (until they hire replacements, which will take a while).</p>
<p>And the ruling wasn&#8217;t that &#8220;they can&#8217;t quit,&#8221; it was that one doctor and one nurse have to be available or on call to meet the requirements for the certification, until more staff is hired.</p>
<p>(The counterpoint is that &#8211; according to the staff &#8211; there&#8217;s no attempt going on to hire those replacements. Neither side can be viewed as without bias. The real issue seems to be that they got better &#8211; *much* better &#8211; offers from a competitor, and took it.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: BethRA		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BethRA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232892&quot;&gt;grannybunny&lt;/a&gt;.

Yup. Bostock v Clayton Country - the Supreme Court already ruled that sexual orientation and gender identity and expression are covered by title VII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bostock_v._Clayton_County]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232892">grannybunny</a>.</p>
<p>Yup. Bostock v Clayton Country &#8211; the Supreme Court already ruled that sexual orientation and gender identity and expression are covered by title VII:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bostock_v._Clayton_County" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bostock_v._Clayton_County</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr. Cajun2core		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232895</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Cajun2core]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232895</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Then there are tenured faculty members.  Those however do fall under contracts, I believe. With tenured faculty members, you can fire them but it does take a good amount of work and documentation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then there are tenured faculty members.  Those however do fall under contracts, I believe. With tenured faculty members, you can fire them but it does take a good amount of work and documentation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Meg		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232894</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232894</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Speaking of at-will, what are your thoughts on the hospital system in Wisconsin that got an injunction to keep some of its interventional radiology staff from quitting and taking jobs at a different hospital? There is no formal employment contract or noncompete agreement but the staff is literally not allowed to quit and has to continue showing up at work according to a judge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of at-will, what are your thoughts on the hospital system in Wisconsin that got an injunction to keep some of its interventional radiology staff from quitting and taking jobs at a different hospital? There is no formal employment contract or noncompete agreement but the staff is literally not allowed to quit and has to continue showing up at work according to a judge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Hogg		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Hogg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is one of the best summaries of At Will that I have seen.

Thanks so much for putting it up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the best summaries of At Will that I have seen.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for putting it up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: grannybunny		</title>
		<link>https://www.evilhrlady.org/2022/01/employment-at-will-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-2.html#comment-232892</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grannybunny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 13:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.evilhrlady.org/?p=6534#comment-232892</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, the Supreme Court already has decided that &quot;sex&quot; includes sexual orientation and gender identity.  In the gay marriage case, they declared that discrimination based on sexual orientation is discrimination &quot;on the basis of sex.&quot;  Likewise, in a Title VII case brought by a transsexual employee, they found that her being fired on the basis of transsexuality was discrimination based on her sex.  The EEOC has, traditionally, taken the position that sex discrimination includes discrimination based on sexual orientation and transsexual status.  There&#039;s simply no longer any upside in taking a contrary legal position.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the Supreme Court already has decided that &#8220;sex&#8221; includes sexual orientation and gender identity.  In the gay marriage case, they declared that discrimination based on sexual orientation is discrimination &#8220;on the basis of sex.&#8221;  Likewise, in a Title VII case brought by a transsexual employee, they found that her being fired on the basis of transsexuality was discrimination based on her sex.  The EEOC has, traditionally, taken the position that sex discrimination includes discrimination based on sexual orientation and transsexual status.  There&#8217;s simply no longer any upside in taking a contrary legal position.</p>
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